365 Brothers is a 2023 Webby Awards Honoree!!
Episode transcript::
Rahbin Shyne : Hello, this is Rahbin Shyne, host of 365 Brothers, the podcast. Over the weekend they released footage of the beating and murder of Tyre Nichols. My podcast interviews are always about an hour long. I talk to my brothers for a while, usually 90 minutes, and I edit it down to, you know, just show who they are. I don't want to simply share their experiences with law enforcement. On this occasion, I am going to publish Darrell Barnes answer to the question about his interactions with law enforcement as a standalone. His full interview will publish later today. But the standalone is because this interview happened a couple weeks ago, well before this footage came out. And as I was finishing the editing, I couldn't help but notice that his answer is a view inside Tyre Nichols beating and murder. The conversation we had about one incident that happened to Darryl explains why Tyre might have run. Explains to me why he was hoping to reach his mother's house before that particular squad of officers could get their hands on him. If we started calling them state lynchings instead of excessive force, maybe things would shift in our perspective and in our tolerance for their repeated appearance on our screens.
Rahbin Shyne : What experiences have you had with law enforcement, Daryl?
Darrell Barnes: For the most part, it has been a lot of negative experiences. I can recall going back when I was, you know, even a teenager, you know, negative experiences. I don't know. I don't know of too many black men that have had positive experiences with law enforcement. You know, for the most part, has there been some positive interactions? Absolutely. But for the most part, you know, there's been some negative experiences. One experience I remember, you know, when I was in my 20s, being in my hometown, we're talking about 90s or so. I remember, you know, hanging out with a group of friends, male friends, and, you know, it's late, long story short of it, and I know people always ask the question, well, what led up to it? There was not much that lead up to it. It was just wrong place, wrong time, wrong officers, you know. And I remember being beaten, not severely like a Rodney King or anything like that, but I remember, you know, a couple of flashlights, you know, to the back of the head. I remember being called filthy. Hope I can say the word, filthy nigger. You know, dirty monkey, gorilla. Had a high top fate at that time, being pulled by the hair and literally being told in my ear, one officer had his service gun pointed on me with a flashlight and the other had jumped on me and put a knee in my back because, of course, he told me to lay down, stuff like that. And during that time frame, I was pretty, you know, I was pretty clean. I didn't. I wasn't an individual that had a record. I didn't have a record. In other words, I didn't get involved in a bunch of foolishness.
Rahbin Shyne : Right.
Darrell Barnes: I just remember while the knee was in my back and the small of my back and, you know, he had grabbed my hair and hit me with the flashlight and everything. And the next thing I heard was the click of the gun. His gun. He pulled it out and click it, you know, And I'm on my stomach and him telling me that he could literally kill me right here. Nobody would give a damn. And I'm like, wow.
Rahbin Shyne : So. And which city is your hometown again?
Darrell Barnes: So. So this was in Kansas City, Kansas, but I. Born and raised in Kansas City, Missouri.
Rahbin Shyne : And this is what he whispered with a gun drawn and point pointed at you?
Darrell Barnes: Yes.
Rahbin Shyne : And he whispers in your ear.
Darrell Barnes: Yeah, that he could kill me right there and nobody would give a damn.
Rahbin Shyne : And how did this end? How did this interaction end?
Darrell Barnes: So, so. And. And it depends upon the individual in which course they would have. They would have taken. At that moment, I realized what I was, what I was in. I wasn't dealing with a what a what. What one could. Could consider a law enforcement office. I wasn't dealing with that individual. I was dealing with something totally different. So as a young man, I said, okay, I cooled out. Not that I had a high temper or anything like that, but I was trying to. I was trying to wrap my mind around the idea of what the extra was because I had already complied. Because I had already complied with their wishes. Right. So I'm trying to figure out what the extra was. And of course I was heated. I was mad, I wanted to retaliate. But remembering I had one officer standing over me with his revolve and the other officer that would. That did what he did, pulled out his service weapon and literally whispered and told me that he can kill me right there. So I knew that they were looking to do something, so I. I cooled out, I calmed down, and I reserved myself because they were looking for a reaction. So I didn't give them one. Right? So because I didn't give them one, they. Then, as I was in handcuffs, you know, they kind of pushed me around on the. On the ground and on the rocks and everything. Kind of squat up my chest at the time. Then they grabbed me by my arms, lifted me up, and then took me over to the squad car, which. Which the squad car was already running. And then they slammed me on the hood of the car on the hot. Of a hood, a hot engine slamming on the hood, of that while they were searching me. Right. And they just knew that they had something. They knew they had somebody. And that's one of the things I kind of want to stress. Sometimes when officers pull you over, they already have it in their head that you are already a suspect. You've already done something illegal. So as. As they had me on the hood of the car, and they're searching me, and they got, you know, my id, they say, okay, run this, you know, this individual, blah, blah, blah. And they ran it. And I look over to the only black officer that was there at the time, and I caught. I was trying to, you know, connect with him. Like, hey, man, you know, you saw what. What happened. You just gonna let them do that? And blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Now, he was the worst of them all because. So you're talking about maybe six or seven.
Rahbin Shyne : Okay, got it.
Darrell Barnes: It's about six or seven, because they had called in, you know, other. Other cars and all this other kind of stuff. And again, we did. Nobody had anything on them. There was no drugs, alcohol, anything like that.
Rahbin Shyne : What was the premise for the stop in the first place?
Darrell Barnes: Whatever they made up, I forget exactly what it was. Yeah, okay. At that time. But we just got.
Rahbin Shyne : You were saying about. Yeah, you're saying about the black cop. I'm sorry.
Darrell Barnes: Yeah, so the black. Yeah, so the black officer, to me, was the worst of them all because. Because when I started to try to connect with him and asked him, you know, why, his response was, was, well, would you rather have a bullet in your head? So I shut completely down. I said, I'm done. I'm not gonna say anything else. I'm done. I'm leaving it alone. So as the. As they continue to, you know, the two officers, you know, who of course were white, they kept trying to get a reaction out of me, slapping me on my back and everything. They kept trying to do that. And as the call came back from, you know, running my name as it. Because they use specific codes. I didn't know what the codes was at that time. I just knew what their reaction was when they got the call. When they got the information back, they said, oh, as though they were disappointed. Right. Okay. So they were disappointed. So left me on the order to car still. So I'm still there because I didn't want to make any kind of, you know, jerking movements or whatever, of course. And when it came back that I was clean, still trying to antagonize Me. They took the cuffs off the cop that told me he could kill me, right? Nobody would care. He kind of took the cuffs and before taking them off, kind of grinded them into my wrist. Finally took it all, slapped me on my back. Today's your lucky day, right? That's what he told me. Today's your lucky day.
Rahbin Shyne : Yeah.
Darrell Barnes: Yeah. Well, we're gonna send you home, but you can't, you can't go home with them. And I'm like, what are you talking about? I rolled with them. Well, you can go home, but you're not going home with them. So on top of that, I had to walk home. And there was a, there was a slight knot in the back of my head where I was bleeding. So it was about 3, 4 o' clock in the morning, 5 o' clock in the morning. I had a girlfriend at the time, so I called her. I'm on the phone with her because I didn't want to go to sleep because I didn't know whether or not if I had a concussion or whatever the case may be, right. So I didn't want to go to sleep. So I told her what happened, you know, she stayed on the phone with me. That was pretty much it. But, but what it did for me, it was, it was kind of like a wake up call for me in that instance, because again, I didn't have a record. You could have ran me before you did what you did and you didn't even have to do what you did. Is, is the thing. Just let me know. Law enforcement is not law enforcement. Some of those that wear those badges, they're there for other reasons other than to be law enforcement officers. They're there for other reasons.
Rahbin Shyne : Right.
Darrell Barnes: They're not there for what a lot of people think. So that was just one incident. And it kind of, it kind of mentally made me check out with police. Right. Because after that, my next interactions were live or die. So now I'm ready to fight at this point because I don't know what you're going to do. And this is a lot of times what black men have to deal with when we're behind the steering wheel of a car. It's not the fact that we're being pulled over and that we may have done something wrong. It's the fact that we don't know whether or not if the officer that day is a, is an actual officer, is he abiding by the law, is he, is he going to do according to the law or is he there for his own purpose and that is to do his will instead of doing what the law is supposed to do. And so that's the thing. So. And just by that experience alone let me know that, you know, I have to be leery of them and kind of watch what their actions are. It's not necessarily what they say. I gotta. I gotta watch what your actions are. And a lot of black men have to deal with that on a daily basis. You know, it's just not being pulled over and getting a ticket and possibly being taken to jail. It's. It's. I don't know what your mind frame is, man. You know, when you're pulling me over, I don't. I don't know what your thought process is. As we've seen in recent times, in. In years, there's been incidents where the police officer has been the one to provoke the incident, not the reverse.
Rahbin Shyne : Right. And how old were you again?
Darrell Barnes: 20, 21, 22. Somewhere around there.
Rahbin Shyne : I think we can all remember those of us who are over 21, in our 30s, 40s, 50s, which most of my listeners are. You're young, and that is a very impressionable time still. And one of the things that stands out from your recounting is when we see. When they play on the news that a black man was running from the police, and everyone wants to know, why would you run? Why would you run? Why are you running? And sometimes it's over some dumb stuff. I mean, that's for sure. There are definitely times when they're running because they don't want to get caught with something. Okay, that happens. But also, there's no awareness that when it's covered that there's also the possibility that he was scared that there might have been something the officer did, said, or mannerism that reminded him of a time that he witnessed or was the recipient of excessive force.
Darrell Barnes: Yes.
Rahbin Shyne : And that's traumatic.
Darrell Barnes: Yes.
Rahbin Shyne : And when people are confronted with a repeat of a trauma, they go run. And again, I. Please don't nobody tell me about. You know, I mean, sometimes I already know that. I'm just saying that it's worth remembering that there are traumatic events that happen that. That really live with people. And having done all these interviews, I still remember it was my third interview, the third brother I interviewed who told me about a gun being pulled on him when he was six. And.
Rahbin Shyne : Yeah.
Rahbin Shyne : An officer pulling a gun on him at the age of six. And so. Yeah, and thank you for sharing that. And this. It's not about vilifying the police, but it is about pointing out exactly what you said, not every officer is there for the same reasons. And even when they are there for what they believe are the same reasons, the prejudices and biases that they hold deeply have. How they do that, how they do their job, not quite work out well for the people interact with. Yeah, Yeah.
Darrell Barnes: I mean, you're absolutely correct. And I'll just say this really quickly. After that. After that event, though, something was born in me after that event. Right. That kind of made me take a stance that this is not going to happen again. Because again, I was. I was compliant. I did. I followed your instructions. But you took it to a different level when there was no need to. Right. Just because you could. So I. So the next time I had an encounter, I wasn't necessarily afraid. And this was what this was. You know, still the same state, around the same age, had another encounter. It was late night, you know. Cause I was going to pick my sister up from. From, you know, where she worked. It was late night, had another encounter. This time it was, you know, state trooper and lights are flashing and everything, but I blacked out at the moment. What I mean, I blacked out is, is that I lost the sense of what I was doing and where I was at. So what I did was, because I wasn't going to take a whooping like that anymore. I got out the car and met the state trooper at his car. You know, I'm like, okay, well, if it's gonna go down, it's gonna go down. I don't. I don't even care anymore. And. And this is the thing that a lot of people still have to understand is that when you're under that type of, like you said, traumatic experience, it's either going to trigger your flight or fight. Right. You're either gonna fight or you're gonna flight. And so, yes. So if you do see a black man running. Yeah. I mean, nine times out of 10, there may have been something to trigger him to. To. To run. Yeah. Okay. Jail time is something that nobody wants to, you know, have to do. Absolutely.
Rahbin Shyne : Right.
Darrell Barnes: But. But the fact that you're gonna have somebody run from you, and then in a lot of instances, you turn around and you shoot him in the back to me. Tells me that you had intentions on doing that anyway.
Rahbin Shyne : You know what? Oh, my gosh. On the one hand, I appreciate what you're saying, but I swear you're hitting my heart right now, because I think about one that I just saw recently, and I don't remember the name or the city, sadly, but I Remember on the news when they showed his face and the look on this young man's face as he was, was running and he turned back and, oh, I know who it is. It's one of the founders of Black Lives Matter, one of her cousins, I think it was.
Darrell Barnes: Yeah.
Rahbin Shyne : And there's a. And he says he's complying, but then he keeps trying to take off. And it just hit me that what are the odds that he had not been stopped before since his cousin did that? You know what I'm saying? Like, I, I. And so now I'm like. And it was when you said that, you know, when, when someone takes off, and then we only see it because the officer has shot him and he's died. And you're right. Like, it does make you wonder. But we never. The news, of course, never says, could there have been something in the interaction before this young man took off that led him to assess that this kind of guy, you know what I'm saying? Like, they never go, well, I wonder if this was the kind of officer that gave him the impression that he was in trouble and, and then he ran and Looks like he was right. Yeah, Jeff, it looks like he was right. Any fear that he experienced was certainly justified, and his taking off and being shot in the back just confirms it. Well, we'll let you know how this plays out. I don't hear that one.
Darrell Barnes: Yeah. Yeah.
Rahbin Shyne : As you probably know, if you followed the investigation, the case, the murder, the five officers were part of a unit called the Scorpion Unit, set out to go and weed out real crime. And they were disbanded after the video surfaced. My guess, just a guess, is that that unit, this was not a one time, Oops. Five officers lost their mind. Five officers. Something was in the water. They just lost their mind one night. And we gonna figure out why. We gonna fire them in the meantime? No, no. People are focusing on. Well, it's five black officers. They, they. Why'd they fire those five officers? They don't do that when it's white officers. You know what? I'm not going to say there's nothing to that. I'm not going to go there. Is it possible that they created a unit to terrorize a community in the guise of law enforcement? I'm not saying they didn't have good intentions. I'm just saying in the execution, it was a unit that terrorized. And people in the community knew that, and the police department knew that. And when these fools took it too far and allowed themselves to be on cameras from multiple angles before they could tell whoever monitors these cameras, you didn't see anything. Well, when that came to light, they disbanded this unit in hopes that no one will look further into the unit, but instead just go, wow. Yeah, that was bad. Anyway, I digress. I often refrain from too much editorializing. But hey, today was the day. And I have. And I did. Thank you for listening to 365 Brothers. Certainly hope you enjoyed the episode. I encourage you to subscribe. Please leave a review. I want to know what you think. Also, if you know someone who would be a fantastic guest for 365 Brothers, please direct them to our website, 365brothers.com. You'll also find all the episodes there 365brothers.com. And your support is welcome. And remember, to listen is to love.
Why Might Tyre Nichols Have Run? Too Many Brothers Know Why.
Today I better understand the term “honoree.” It is truly an honor to have 365 Brothers podcast recognized by the International Academy of Digital Arts and Sciences. While we are not among the five nominees being voted on for Best Podcast Episode, we are one of only three honorees in the category. Wow!!
To see 365 Brothers podcast listed on the same page as Snap Judgement, a favorite NPR podcast, is beyond fulfilling. I send tremendous thanks to this episode’s featured guest, Darrell Barnes, as well all our other guests, listeners and supporters.